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Post by wilhitjb on Mar 26, 2014 15:10:52 GMT -5
I saw some IMR 4227 at Bass Pro off of I-40 recently, and since I'm an idiot whose reaction to the powder shortage is to jump at the word "pistol" displayed on the shelf tag and buy a couple pounds, I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to use it to load non-magnum pistol cartridges (e.g. 9mm Luger, .40 S&W) -- and whether anyone who's tried it still has all their fingers, etc. There's not much load data on various sites I've searched, but based on some people's allusions to older reloading manuals listing data for 9mm Luger and .40 S&W, and others saying they've tried it with mixed results (insufficient case volume for the amount of powder required to cycle the gun, better results with magnum primers, and so on), and a couple of recipes listed for 9mm Luger on reloadersnest.com, I get the impression that it's remotely possible a workable recipe could exist. If any of you have tried it, how did it work out? What was your load data?
As an aside, I have 2 lbs of unopened IMR 4227 I can donate to someone who needs it more than I do.
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Post by Frank on Apr 12, 2014 19:34:25 GMT -5
It is not that big a deal to "jump" at the chance to get ahead. it is just a pain when it is one step back isn't it? Ill check an old book I have somewhere in the storage building and see what it says. But i dont think you will be able to use it for small pistol loads like what your wanting to do. If all else fails it will work great for sending anvils in the air.
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Post by Glenn on May 1, 2014 15:20:52 GMT -5
Think of it this way, Starting load of IMR 800-X is 5.3gr for the 9mm and give you a projected 1032fps, 28,700psi, IMR 4227 starting load for 357 mag is 11gr and gives you 1176fps with 29000 psi, you probably could not get enough of it in the 9mm case to shoot well because it has a different burn rate, hope that answers your question. Glenn
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Post by Glenn on May 1, 2014 15:26:13 GMT -5
8-)Also have read that its a good powder for magnum pistol loads and the 30 carbine.
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Post by wilhitjb on May 3, 2014 9:04:02 GMT -5
Think of it this way, Starting load of IMR 800-X is 5.3gr for the 9mm and give you a projected 1032fps, 28,700psi, IMR 4227 starting load for 357 mag is 11gr and gives you 1176fps with 29000 psi, you probably could not get enough of it in the 9mm case to shoot well because it has a different burn rate, hope that answers your question. Glenn That's got me thinking: Hodgdon's relative powder burn rate chart lists 800-X at the 38th position, and 4227 at the 65th. If I'm understanding the chart correctly (and I could be very, very wrong here), this would mean that 4227 burns 27x slower than 800-X, which equates to a relative burn rate that's about 41.53% slower than 800-X's ([38 - 65] / 65). So, in a load that calls for 5.1 gn of 800-X with a 115 gn bullet (which is what I use), we'd need something like 58.46% more 4227 to achieve similar performance (8.1 gn in this case). A 9mm case's capacity is about 8.9 gn of 800-X or 12 gn of 4227. 4227 has 25% less volume per grain than 800-X, so 8.1 gn of 4227 would take up roughly the same volume as 6 gn of 800-X. This appears to not be an issue with 800-X -- you'd just compress it when you seat the bullet and everything's dandy. I'm not sure 4227 can be compressed without causing some massive pressure spikes, though. Considering its shape, it seems like it would be a bad idea to compress it. I'd love to test my work (just to see how wrong my math is, if anything), but I don't have any guns lying around that I want to blow up (yet). Anyone have one they'd be willing to sacrifice for science? |
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Post by Alamontexas on Oct 16, 2014 10:53:02 GMT -5
My Lee Volume Measure Density (VMD) Chart shows a density of .0769. To get the correct powder charge, multiply the grain weight of the bullet times the density and you will be close. I have had no problems with the VMD measuring with my pistols shooting hot.
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Post by OKLoader on Jun 12, 2015 14:07:43 GMT -5
wilhitjb, I'm obviously way late to the party here, but I felt I needed to reply regarding your assumptions on powder burn rates. The important thing to note about Hodgdon's relative powder burn chart is the term "relative". You cannot safely assume that position 65 burns 27x slower than position 38. The numbers on that chart simply indicate an order of fastest to slowest relative to each other... not the actual burn rate. That chart does not list actual burn rates. Further, where pyro-chemistry is involved, you cannot assume what kind of pressure is produced when powders burn simply based upon relative burn rate. You also can't assume that a given powder's charge weight-to-pressure produced ratio or charge weight-to-velocity produced ratio are linear. As an example: Hodgdon's published data for IMR4227 loads for a 45 Colt (strong frame pistol only), using a 225 grain Barnes XPB bullet shows an initial charge of 20.9 grains produces 1077 fps velocity at 19900 CUP pressure. Max load of 24.9 grains produces 1312 fps velocity at 29800 CUP pressure. By increasing the initial load by only 19.1%, we gain roughly 21.8% velocity increase, but at almost a 50% increase in pressure! The point here is: the 19.1% increase in powder charge doesn't translate into a 19.1% increase in either velocity or pressure. Not meaning to sound preachy... just want you to stay safe! |
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